All New Who
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Re: All New Who
by Amarië Wed Jan 01, 2020 10:57 pm
Agreed! 
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One does not simply woke into Mordor.
-Mrs Figg
"Everything we hear is an opinion, not a fact. Everything we see is a perspective, not the truth."
-Marcus Aurelius
#amarieco
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Re: All New Who
by Mrs Figg Wed Jan 01, 2020 11:04 pm
well that was crapper than expected. Having Stephen Fry didn't save it from being utterly crap.
- Spoiler:
- I thought I was very boring and badly acted. I disliked the fake James Bond stuff and thought Yaz and whateverheiscalled was as wooden and useless as ever. So boring in fact that I switched over to another show when they were chasing on motorbikes. I thought it was awful stuff. What made me pissed off the most was the Doctor not knowing what was going on, having no clue who the aliens are and having someone else take over and figure out what is going on. That doesn't happen to the Doctor. The Doctor always takes control of the situation, or at least has a plan. and she is still saying 'fam'
I have no faith in this Doctor, I wouldn't go to the shops with this Doctor let alone an adventure.
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Re: All New Who
by halfwise Wed Jan 01, 2020 11:13 pm
Well he couldn't save the hobbit either.
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Re: All New Who
by Amarië Wed Jan 01, 2020 11:47 pm
The buzz certainly helped, but was actually not as bad as I had feared!
This series might actually be - knock on wood- viewable!
Best part?... when Finrod exclaimed " She's a head lice!"
Can't argue with that.
I don't wanna go to work tomorrow.
This series might actually be - knock on wood- viewable!
Best part?... when Finrod exclaimed " She's a head lice!"
Can't argue with that.
I don't wanna go to work tomorrow.
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One does not simply woke into Mordor.
-Mrs Figg
"Everything we hear is an opinion, not a fact. Everything we see is a perspective, not the truth."
-Marcus Aurelius
#amarieco
One does not simply woke into Mordor.
-Mrs Figg
"Everything we hear is an opinion, not a fact. Everything we see is a perspective, not the truth."
-Marcus Aurelius
#amarieco
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Re: All New Who
by Amarië Wed Jan 01, 2020 11:54 pm
halfwise wrote:Well he couldn't save the hobbit either.
Well... He is only human after all.
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One does not simply woke into Mordor.
-Mrs Figg
"Everything we hear is an opinion, not a fact. Everything we see is a perspective, not the truth."
-Marcus Aurelius
#amarieco
One does not simply woke into Mordor.
-Mrs Figg
"Everything we hear is an opinion, not a fact. Everything we see is a perspective, not the truth."
-Marcus Aurelius
#amarieco
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Re: All New Who
by Pettytyrant101 Thu Jan 02, 2020 12:15 am
- Spoiler:
- I disliked the fake James Bond stuff- Figg
{{ I thought it was the weakest element of the story, the introduction to the party and its ending with the bike chase. I also thought the music strayed a little to far into overblown Bond parody for it, and once you add in the quips under pressure it all felt a bit divorced from the tone of the rest of it and out of place.
'thought Yaz and whateverheiscalled was as wooden and useless as ever.'
There I'd disagree, Im still not sold on Ryan or the actors performance, but I found the scene where he jokes with Yaz about dating her sister and that he'd be a good brother in law to feel quite genuine and like real friends, I also thought this was Yaz's best episode so far since her first, she got more to do and I thought her performance from when she got zapped to nit world to her conversation with Ryan after it to be pretty strong. It certainly didnt suddenly give her a fully rounded personality and character, but I thought it was a big step in the right direction.
'having no clue who the aliens are and having someone else take over and figure out what is going on'
Last series she tended to be clueless and look stupid because the plot required her not to know something til later in the story, so it always felt contrived and why it often left her looking daft. I thought this time there was a big enough reason for her not to know, they dont appear to be from this universe, so she doesn't know how they operate or by what rules. Narratively it made sense this time, and better it gave Jodies Doctor something to be worried about and to play straight- I get th eimpressionof sh eis given the material she might make a better serious Doctor than she does a comedic one. And I am hoping they take her more in that direction this series.
'having someone else take over and figure out what is going on.'
Nothing really is figured out, we got a big reveal the Master is behind whatever is going on, but we still dont know what is going on, what the aliens are, what they want, or what they have to do with the Master or the tech guy or all the spies. And I never felt at any point someone else was figuring it out for her, as its not figured out- she did trust someone she thought was an ally and who would help, that turned out to be a big mistake given they were the Master, but I didnt see it as someone else figuring it out. Fortunetly another thing this was short of in comparison to her first series was exposition dumps.
Well he couldn't save the hobbit either.- Halfwise
Well in fairness Martin Freeman put in a good performance as Bilbo, just in the wrong version of The Hobbit. There was no saving it, not even by good performances. Now youve made me think of that film again!
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Re: All New Who
by Pettytyrant101 Thu Jan 02, 2020 12:17 am
{{Incidently Happy Hogmanay Forumshire 
Another year dawns and we're still here to see it! 
Hope Im not the only one nursing a raging hangover that feels like this 
}}
Another year dawns and we're still here to see it! Hope Im not the only one nursing a raging hangover that feels like this }}_________________
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Re: All New Who
by Forest Shepherd Thu Jan 02, 2020 8:16 am
Hangover free!
...Kinda wish I had done a little drinking though.
Bleh, not ready for a new year yet.
...Kinda wish I had done a little drinking though.
Bleh, not ready for a new year yet.
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Re: All New Who
by halfwise Thu Jan 02, 2020 12:08 pm
I had have a bottle of wine as I watched The Irishman. Good film, but had enough food with it I didn't get a hangover.
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Re: All New Who
by Pettytyrant101 Thu Jan 02, 2020 12:15 pm
{{ I had a rough second half to the year so I decdied to see this unhappy year aware by getting blind drunk (more than usual I mean) on single malt whisky (drank most of a full big bottle myself, its about 40% proof so not too bad!) was by then after the Bells and I was drunk enough to stupidly start mixing it with other stuff, like proseco, and next I was aware of things it was many hours later and I was lying on a cold toilet floor clutching the toilet seat being very, very sick. 
And got a resulting 2 day hangover! In short a traditional Scottish Hogmanay! (except I failed to find someone to get into a fight with )}}
And got a resulting 2 day hangover! In short a traditional Scottish Hogmanay! (except I failed to find someone to get into a fight with )}}_________________
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Re: All New Who
by azriel Thu Jan 02, 2020 4:24 pm
Oh what a let down you go to all the trouble of being unable to stand & there isn't a sane bodkin to punch on the nose & wish A Merry New Year, talk about inconsiderate !! There's always next New Years ?
you go to all the trouble of being unable to stand & there isn't a sane bodkin to punch on the nose & wish A Merry New Year, talk about inconsiderate !! There's always next New Years ? _________________
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Re: All New Who
by azriel Fri Jan 03, 2020 12:01 am
Same here 
Ive had better, cant think when ? but Ive had better.
Ive had better, cant think when ? but Ive had better._________________
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Re: All New Who
by Pettytyrant101 Fri Jan 03, 2020 5:08 am
{{ Well the general view seems to be fans thought it was much improved on last series, and critics overall liked it too, but the viewing figures are less good. A lot less good.
To put it in context this was a holiday special and a series opener, and bear in mind a large part behind the thinking of making the Doctor female and taking a change of direction and moving to New year Day from Xmas day was to improve the ratings over the Capaldi era ratings.
Heres where Who has been in the past- note these are final figures, so they include those who watched on broadcast plus those who watched on BBC iplayer within 2 weeks of broadcast.
So far of course we only have the overnights for this years episode. In general catch up will add anything from 0.5 million at bottom end to about 4 million at top end to the figures. But its hard after the fact to get just the overnights for earlier NuWho stuff. So these figures are just to give you a ball park idea of where figures have been and how they hold up between opening episode of a series and its xmas/new year special at year end.
Series 1 Rose- 10.81 million. Series 1 xmas special - 9.8
Series 2 New Earth- 8.6. Xmas special - 9.4
Series 3 Smith and Jones - 8.7. Xmas special - 13.31
Series 4 Partners in Crime- 9.1. Xmas Special - 13.1
Specials- End of Time Part 2 New Years Day- 12.27
Series 5 The Eleventh Hour - 10.06. Xmas special- 12.11
Series 6 An Impossible Astronaut - 8.85. Xmas special- 10.77
Series 7 Asylum of the Daleks 8.33. Xmas Special - 9.87
From here on the figures are just for overnights, so a direct comparison can be drawn to Jodies overnight figures.
Series 8 Deep Breath - 6.96. Xmas Special - 6.34
Series 9 The Magicians Apprentice - 4.58. Xmas Special -5.77
Xmas Special - 5.68
Series 10 The Pilot - 4.64. Xmas Special - 5.70
Series 11 (Jodies debut series) The Woman Who Fell To Earth - 8.20. Xmas Special- 5.15
Which brings us to this years episode-
Series 12 Spyfall pt1 - 4.88
So yeah, not good. It not only is only starting a series from a Capaldi era level (but Capaldi era consolidated well on catch-up, Deep Breath, Capaldi's debut for example got just over 6 million on overnights but on final figures consolidated at over 10 million. Jodies figures last year for catch up were nowhere near so good) its not just a series opener its a holiday special too, on whch point it fares even worse in comparisons.
But I think the more worrying trend, if indeed it becomes one, is that even when Capladi series debuted low, in the 4 millions, by series end they tended to have gained about another million watching live on broadcast, enough who started watching on catchup liked what they saw enough to tune in straight away and boost overnights.
Jodies is the opposite, she went from an all time high in her debut to less than a Capladi xmas episode for her first New year one. In fact it was the lowest holiday special in NuWho, until this years. Instead of building viewers across a series she has been losing them.
And given how low this years figures are for a New year Day special its seems that even if this series is a vast improvement over last series, last series might have done too much damage to the reputation of this Doctor for folk to come back. }}
To put it in context this was a holiday special and a series opener, and bear in mind a large part behind the thinking of making the Doctor female and taking a change of direction and moving to New year Day from Xmas day was to improve the ratings over the Capaldi era ratings.
Heres where Who has been in the past- note these are final figures, so they include those who watched on broadcast plus those who watched on BBC iplayer within 2 weeks of broadcast.
So far of course we only have the overnights for this years episode. In general catch up will add anything from 0.5 million at bottom end to about 4 million at top end to the figures. But its hard after the fact to get just the overnights for earlier NuWho stuff. So these figures are just to give you a ball park idea of where figures have been and how they hold up between opening episode of a series and its xmas/new year special at year end.
Series 1 Rose- 10.81 million. Series 1 xmas special - 9.8
Series 2 New Earth- 8.6. Xmas special - 9.4
Series 3 Smith and Jones - 8.7. Xmas special - 13.31
Series 4 Partners in Crime- 9.1. Xmas Special - 13.1
Specials- End of Time Part 2 New Years Day- 12.27
Series 5 The Eleventh Hour - 10.06. Xmas special- 12.11
Series 6 An Impossible Astronaut - 8.85. Xmas special- 10.77
Series 7 Asylum of the Daleks 8.33. Xmas Special - 9.87
From here on the figures are just for overnights, so a direct comparison can be drawn to Jodies overnight figures.
Series 8 Deep Breath - 6.96. Xmas Special - 6.34
Series 9 The Magicians Apprentice - 4.58. Xmas Special -5.77
Xmas Special - 5.68
Series 10 The Pilot - 4.64. Xmas Special - 5.70
Series 11 (Jodies debut series) The Woman Who Fell To Earth - 8.20. Xmas Special- 5.15
Which brings us to this years episode-
Series 12 Spyfall pt1 - 4.88
So yeah, not good. It not only is only starting a series from a Capaldi era level (but Capaldi era consolidated well on catch-up, Deep Breath, Capaldi's debut for example got just over 6 million on overnights but on final figures consolidated at over 10 million. Jodies figures last year for catch up were nowhere near so good) its not just a series opener its a holiday special too, on whch point it fares even worse in comparisons.
But I think the more worrying trend, if indeed it becomes one, is that even when Capladi series debuted low, in the 4 millions, by series end they tended to have gained about another million watching live on broadcast, enough who started watching on catchup liked what they saw enough to tune in straight away and boost overnights.
Jodies is the opposite, she went from an all time high in her debut to less than a Capladi xmas episode for her first New year one. In fact it was the lowest holiday special in NuWho, until this years. Instead of building viewers across a series she has been losing them.
And given how low this years figures are for a New year Day special its seems that even if this series is a vast improvement over last series, last series might have done too much damage to the reputation of this Doctor for folk to come back. }}
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Re: All New Who
by Mrs Figg Fri Jan 03, 2020 3:19 pm
Its just beyond redemption in my opinion, even if it has improved, that's not saying much. It still lacks that special magic. Its derivative and dull and when the credits start I don't get that special tingle in my toes.
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Re: All New Who
by Pettytyrant101 Mon Jan 06, 2020 12:54 pm
{{ So Spyfall part 2- could Chibbers continue the improvements made in part 1? Short answer God no!
My hopes this series was on the up have taken a severe dent with this second part and trends that looked like they had been addressed have reared their ugly heads once more. }}
- Spoiler:
- This was a right dogs breakfast of an episode. Mainly it was bad giving a lot of what was wrong last series back in abundance.
After the Doctor got zapped to alien place we get a few minutes of her talking to herself, and all I could think was please God don't write her an episode like Heaven Sent where she is the only thing in it, I think I'd end up killing myself long before the end if I had to listen to her inane babbling for so long. We got a few minutes of it here and it was just awful, she just cant do it. If you really want a stark example of the drop in quality in lead actor and writing from 12 to 13 watch Heaven Sent, then watch these few minutes of 13 on her own talking to herself, and then imagine having to watch her for a full hour doing that.
Most of the stuff set up in episode one, from the plot- who are the aliens, what are they doing, what they do they want, to how do they get out the cliffhanger? was pretty much techno-babbled or hand waved away. But not in a way that even tries to make sense. They just depend solely on her speaking the lines so quickly and the camera and characters moving onto the next thing quickly enough you wont have time to stop an think so you'll just accept whatever she was babbling about, accepting it probably made sense. It doesn't.
Take for example the excuse for why rather than dying the Doctor and Yaz got transported to alien place, it was because they were Time Travellers full of Arton energy and the aliens were confused. So ok, why did they send Yaz back then, and why send here to the place in Australia? If they were curious about them why zap them there only to abandon them once they arrive? Why did they also take scientist women there? She doesn't have arton energy in her, if they are just influencing people who created computers why take her there just to let her wander round a bit before sending her back?
Even worse was the get out of jail free card for how the 'fam' got off the crashing plane- it was easy after everything was done the Doctor went back in time and fixed it to save them! What? You just broke the main rule of the show Chibnall - now there is no reason at all why the Doctor cant just pop back after anything bad happens and retro fix it!! The Doctor cannot go back into established events if she is already a part of them. That rule is there to stop exactly this sort of easy fix, just pop back in the TARDIS a bit and fix it.
Then there is the hopping about time- so we get nazi Germany where we pick up the UK first Muslim female spy in France during WW2- not much is actually made of all this other than to make sure we know it, likewise with scientist woman whose name I cant remember proving it didn't work, but again mainly telling us this woman existed, was brilliant and we ought to know about her, she doesn't really add anything either. They just seem to be there so when the Doctor turns up in heroic mode she is flanked by two smart famous women form history. I don't know really what the point was besides this. They just sort of tag along then she takes them home and wipes their memories. Problem is these two intelligent influencial women dont use their intellect, skills or talents to do anything that helps solve the plot the mystery or well anything, one of them fires a gun a bit at the Master, another hides them from a Nazi patrol, but anyone could have done that, it didnt have to be female historical celebrities. It might have been better to have them display their brillaince in some way instead of just telling us they are brillaint and then just tagging along for the ride.
And I suppose I have to talk about the Master. Where this Master is in the timeline is puzzling me. There is no hint, sign or suggestion that any of the character development we saw in Missy has occurred. From the use of the '4 drum beats' motif to his performance it feels very much like a regeneration immediately following the Simm Master, as if Missy never happened at all. Add to this either Chibnall doesn't know what happened in series 10 or something else is going on, as this Master says Gallifrey is in its own bubble universe still, when they had in fact got out of it and were hiding the planet at the end of time in Hell Bent in series 10. So either this Master is from before those events, in which case Gallifrey shouldn't be destroyed as it wasn't by the time of Hell Bent, or Chibnall has made a huge continuity error, or has wiped out series 10 altogether. But its not even vaguely clear which.
The fam are a problem too apart from the ridiculous laser shoes they don't actually do anything, I mean they run about a lot from here to there, but when you boil it down they dont do anything to further the plot or solve the issues or have any further character development, they just go from place to place until eventually the Doctor shows up. We are very much back to last series useless pointless fam.
And I suppose I have to address the big arc, the Timeless Child, which looks like it has the potential to completely retcon the entirety of the shows history and lore- oh good, I have so much faith in Chibbers to pull that off!!
We get the big reveal that Gallifrey is destroyed, AGAIN! Really? This is the best big thing you could think of Chibbers? To wipe out Gallifrey again? We only just got it back! Rather than feeling like this massive shocking twist it just feels repetitive and dull. What the Timeless Child turns out to be, or why discovering the truth of it prompted the Master to apparently destroy Gallifrey as punishment I dread to find out, but I guess we will eventually by series end.
But its the lack of explanation, sense, logic or undertaking that fills this episode with a bad stench.
Things I don't follow- if the aliens were spying and according to the Master they are doing this everywhere all across the universe, why do they want to rewrite all the human DNA? What for? The big plan seems to be get computer tech to point where tech guy can use it to zap everyone through their tech and wipe their DNA- then what? If the aliens are going to take over the bodies as computers - as implied by tech guy saying the only thing of value left in humans is the processing power of their brains,then why does Tech guy say a few will stay sentient to rebuild and watch over the rest? Wouldn't everyone just be vegetables like the spy from part 1? unless aliens have a way to keep everyone alive they'd all just die from lack of nutrition and exercise. Is tech guy and his mates going to care for everyone on the planet while aliens use the brains for computers? He murdered his own mother, he doesn't seem the type. And why are they even interested in doing this on earth if they are everywhere in our universe? Was this what they wanted to do in the entire universe all along? Do they now have to go planet by planet through the whole universe manipulating history on each one to do the same there over and over? What's the plan?!!!! Why do they take people from history there over and over? If its to put stuff in their head so they will invent computer stuff then all the stuff the Doctor says about the woman, how brilliant she is etc isn't true, its just what the aliens told her. If they aren't telling her stuff then what's the point of kidnapping her over and over?
The hand-wavy technobabble stuff that passes for explanations throughout don't even come close to addressing the stuff set up in part one.
For the most part this felt somewhat desperate, like Chibbers was grasping at stuff he thought would make people happy after last series and he's got it all wrong, its ham-fisted.
He's taken the RTD era style of mad manic Master and hat-stand mad universe threatening plot, he's tried to give Jodie some Capaldi style monologues that he can neither write well enough or her deliver well enough to be anything other than annoying and tedious, he's even got a bit of Blink with the Doctor replying from a recording on a tv, and he's tried to have a huge Moffat style twist and set up but he's fluffed all the set up.
For example had Moffat written how the Doctor saved them from the plane there would have been little bits earlier in the episode setting it up, so when it happened the viewer would go, 'oh, thats what that was about!' and it feel satisfying, think the phone call to move the painting from the 50th anniversary for example, Chibbers give us the solution but no set up at all, so no sense of satisfaction, just of being cheated.
Its a pastiche of Moffat and RTD era style things done by a lesser writer.
But Ive saved the bit that troubled the most till last- the scene where the Master dressed as a Nazi forces the Doctor to kneel in front of him, her face right in front of his crotch and say his name, 'Master'. The not very sub subtext of sexual violence, repression and the forced dominance of patriarchy is rife in this scene,including the Masters uncharacteristic referring to the Doctor using the colloquial 'love' as in , 'speak up love'. But what really annoys is that it makes no sense for their history and relationship, yes they are always trying to either kill or stop the other, but they were also once best friends, they understand each other better than anyone, have known each other for hundreds of years, and both of them have at different times been male and female. This scene is even worse if this Master does follow Missy. The whole scene made my skin crawl on about ten different levels at once.
My hopes this series was on the up have taken a severe dent with this second part and trends that looked like they had been addressed have reared their ugly heads once more. }}
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Re: All New Who
by Mrs Figg Mon Jan 06, 2020 4:28 pm
you know when you have to sit in the dentists waiting room and you are sitting there in an agony of boredom, well that was Spyfall part 2.
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Re: All New Who
by Pettytyrant101 Mon Jan 06, 2020 6:35 pm
{{ Yup, only there a creepy person there making you feel really uncomfortable-
I just feel like this does not belong in Who! }}
I just feel like this does not belong in Who!
}}_________________
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Re: All New Who
by Amarië Mon Jan 06, 2020 8:43 pm
Mazda?
((Haven't seen the episode yet, but had to take a look at the clip.
))
((Haven't seen the episode yet, but had to take a look at the clip.
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#amarieco
One does not simply woke into Mordor.
-Mrs Figg
"Everything we hear is an opinion, not a fact. Everything we see is a perspective, not the truth."
-Marcus Aurelius
#amarieco
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Re: All New Who
by Pettytyrant101 Tue Jan 07, 2020 2:12 am
{{ I wil be interested in your and Finrods views on this one Amarie! That scene is even worse in the longer version and in context. }}
That scene is even worse in the longer version and in context. }}_________________
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Re: All New Who
by Orwell Tue Jan 07, 2020 6:21 am
I have only only watched one show - not sure it was the first one? - one - of this Doctor. I have also never seen Film 3 of The Hobbit. In purely relative terms I think this means I am winning and you folk are losing. 
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Re: All New Who
by Mrs Figg Tue Jan 07, 2020 4:38 pm
Orwell! 
how are you doing? been thinking about you Ozzies, I really hope its not bad where you are. the whole thing is beyond words. 
how are you doing? been thinking about you Ozzies, I really hope its not bad where you are. the whole thing is beyond words.
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Re: All New Who
by halfwise Tue Jan 07, 2020 5:40 pm
I'm rather smug about not watching this version of Dr Who myself. Why these others keep putting themselves through the torture is beyond me.
Good to hear from you Orwell! Hope your environs don't have you sneezing and sputtering.
Good to hear from you Orwell! Hope your environs don't have you sneezing and sputtering.
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Re: All New Who
by Pettytyrant101 Tue Jan 07, 2020 5:42 pm
{{ Orwell!! 
A sighting rarer than an unsinged koala! Glad your doing well and do stay safe! Oh and turn up more bloody often you lazy arsed Ozhobbit!!! (and yes that is as close as your getting to sayng I miss you!)}}
A sighting rarer than an unsinged koala! Glad your doing well and do stay safe! Oh and turn up more bloody often you lazy arsed Ozhobbit!!! (and yes that is as close as your getting to sayng I miss you!)}}_________________
Pure Publications, The Tower of Lore and the Former Admin's Office are Reasonably Proud to Present-
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*Pure Publications reserves the right to track your usage of this publication, snoop on your home address, go through your bins and sell personal information on to the highest bidder.
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