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Post by Pettytyrant101 Tue Jul 13, 2021 8:25 am

{{ On the matter of Gandalf's eyebrows and them being long enough and bushy enough to stick beyond the rim of his hat- I always imagined therefore a hat like this (with regard to brim size I mean, his would be taller of course and not black)-

Tolkien related video's. - Page 23 Capture

Therefore Tolkien can mention both a brim and the eyebrows ability to reach beyond it without him needing half a foot long eyebrows to do it. }}

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Post by Mrs Figg Tue Jul 13, 2021 12:30 pm

Depends where the brim rested on his forehead. Hats normally stop mid forehead in my experience, not that I am wearing a wizards hat natch.
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Post by Pettytyrant101 Tue Jul 13, 2021 2:46 pm

{{ I would sugget in Gandalf's case the brim would come right down to rest just above the eyebrows.}}

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Post by Mrs Figg Tue Jul 13, 2021 4:37 pm

Next time you see him have a good look. Razz But try not to stare, wizards don't like that much.
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Post by chris63 Mon Jul 26, 2021 3:08 pm

Travels of Bilbo Baggins

https://youtu.be/uwmtKlLxDA8

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Post by halfwise Tue Jul 27, 2021 4:35 pm


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Post by halfwise Tue Jul 27, 2021 11:14 pm


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Post by Pettytyrant101 Tue Jul 27, 2021 11:39 pm

{{ Only issue there is I have a vague recollection of reading somewhere that there was some limited trade with the dwarves, and that dwarves would occasioanlly stay at the Green Dragon on their way through the Shire.
I also personally also felt that the more complicated items owned by hobbits- such as clocks relying on clockwork were probably dwarfish in origin. }}

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Post by chris63 Sat Jul 31, 2021 9:46 am

Some nice drawings in these vids.




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Post by halfwise Fri Aug 06, 2021 1:35 pm

A lot here I've never heard before. I wonder what the source was?


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Post by halfwise Fri Aug 06, 2021 3:35 pm

Interesting - I had somehow missed that it was Aldarion who brought mallorn trees to middle earth via Cirdan.

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Post by Pettytyrant101 Sun Aug 15, 2021 9:57 am


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Post by Pettytyrant101 Sun Aug 22, 2021 8:27 pm

{{ Eldy should enjoy this, it is rather impressive work, ME in minecraft }}


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Post by Elthir Sun Aug 22, 2021 10:24 pm

halfwise wrote:A lot here I've never heard before. I wonder what the source was?

A short text called Of Lembas published in The Peoples of Middle-Earth. Of course one has to differentiate the text from what is conjectured about Lembas in the video above (nor did I do a close analysis to see if I agree with the facts of this video compared with the text), but I'm guessing the parts you haven't heard before hail from this text.

Of Lembas was written sometime between 1951 and 1959.


halfwise wrote: Interesting - I had somehow missed that it was Aldarion who brought mallorn trees to middle earth via Cirdan.

In my unasked for opinion, I prefer what I think was the original idea, that the mallorns grew in the land that came to be called Lórien.

No doubt Tolkien tried to "bring them East" so to speak, and as I know I've gone over the questions I have regarding the history of the mallorn trees (in these forums somewhere), here I'll just state the possibly obvious -- and not that anyone, including Tolkien himself, ever claimed otherwise: not everything of notable beauty need hail from the West.

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Post by halfwise Sun Aug 22, 2021 10:36 pm

One definitely gets the feeling from LotR that Mallorns are native to Lorien. I'll have to go back to Unfinished Tales to see if that description of Numenor mentions them. I would think that would've stuck in my mind if it did.

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Post by Elthir Sun Aug 22, 2021 11:30 pm

Ahh. Found it. Here's what I wrote long ago, as a sequel to Galadriel Greenleaves.

Galadriel Goldenleaves

In around 1960, or in existence by 1965 [see: A Description Of The Island Of Numenor in Unfinished Tales, and Words, Phrases And Passages, Parma Eldalamberon 17], Tolkien decides that the golden mallorn trees of Lothlorien have been introduced there by Galadriel.

Tar-Aldarion gives some of the fruits [a nut with a silver shale] to Gil-galad, but the trees did not take root in Lindon 'but Gil-galad gave some to his kinswoman Galadriel, and under her power they grew and flourished in the guarded land of Lothlorien beside the river Anduin...'

It is also noted that Galadriel's mallorns did not reach the height or girth of the groves of Numenor, and we learn that there were mallorn-trees in Eressea too, for after five centures the mallorn trees of Numenor reached heights that were 'scarce less' than those of Eressea.

Okay a nice idea. But when did Galadriel introduce these trees in Lothlorien? Considerning the seemingly confusing movements of Galadriel, and especially that in the later chronology she seems not to have taken up rule in Lothlorien until well into the Third Age, I have to wonder if [what I think was] the earlier idea wasn't just simpler.

The earlier idea, in my opinion, was that Lothlorien was famous for its golden trees from the First Age. I base this upon an early variant of the poem from Legolas [The Treason Of Isengard, Lothlorien], in which it is noted of Amroth:

An elven-lord he was of old
when all the woods were young
and in Lothlorien with gold
the boughs of trees were hung.


Okay it's a rejected part of a poem, but still. And in The Lord of the Rings itself, Haldir says of Cerin Amroth: 'For this is the heart of the ancient realm as it was long ago, and here is the mound of Amroth, where in happier days his high house was built' which included mallorn trees of great height.

Now this doesn't necessarily mean that we go all the way back to the First Age of course, but to me the implication is that the trees are flourishing in Amroth's time, who is lord of Lothlorien before Galadriel and Celeborn rule in Caras Galadhon, for Amroth was still [The Fellowship of the Ring]...

Of old he was an Elven-king,
A lord of tree and glen,
When golden were the boughs in spring
In fair Lothlorien.


Amroth rules before Galadriel, and in an already golden Lorien [note that even in the rejected scenario where Amroth is Galadriel's son, Galadriel committed Lorien to Amroth in the Second Age].

So again, especially as Amroth becomes the son of Amdir, not Galadriel, when is Galadriel planting these mallorn-trees in Lothlorien? And why plant them in Lorien and not her own lands, well before she takes over Lothlorien after Amroth's death?

It's not impossible, of course, that Galadriel should introduce the golden trees in Lothlorien when Amroth rules, in a land where she visits but does not yet live [granting Elvish 'visits' can be long], but why not in Lindon or Eregion for examples? Especially Lindon in a sense, as Gil-galad desired them there, and Celeborn was later said to rule a fief in Harlindon.

Again, Tolkien might have been able to arrange a story that answers my questions, but I sort of 'disagree' that he needed to have Galadriel introduce the golden trees of Lothlorien -- although not that he 'needed' too obviously, but he seemingly wanted to in any case.

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Post by halfwise Mon Aug 23, 2021 12:02 am

I can't see an elf referring to any happenings in the Third Age as "ancient".

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Post by Elthir Mon Aug 23, 2021 12:03 am

Good point Halfy!

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Post by Elthir Mon Aug 23, 2021 12:12 am

By the way, just noticed the title of one of the sections of the forthcoming The Nature of Middle-Earth . . .

The Making of Lembas!

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Post by halfwise Mon Aug 23, 2021 3:13 am

I saw that. But I don't think we're getting a recipe.

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Post by chris63 Wed Aug 25, 2021 2:17 pm


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Post by chris63 Wed Aug 25, 2021 2:18 pm


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Post by chris63 Wed Aug 25, 2021 2:27 pm


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Post by chris63 Sun Sep 05, 2021 7:51 am

I quite liked this.


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Post by halfwise Tue Sep 07, 2021 8:28 pm

quite liked that Azog one. Not really familiar with Shadow of War, worth looking up.

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