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Post by Mrs Figg Thu May 13, 2021 8:59 pm

the Guardian was reporting today that EU citizens are being detained and expelled. There have been Spanish and Bulgarian people coming to the UK for job interviews, they were detained for days in detention camps then expelled. This is against the rules, and disgusting. All part of the 'hostile environment' for EU citizens. England is rapidly turning into a proto-fascist state.
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Post by Pettytyrant101 Thu May 13, 2021 10:26 pm



{{ As this ws happening today the Scottish Parliament was having its swearing in of all members and giving their oath to serve. The Home Office knew all the politicians were busy elsewhere, which is shameless in itself.
But not only did the locals stand up to this and prevent it,that swearing in was for the most diverse Parliament yet elected, and included 58 female members out of 129, the first fully handicapped wheelchair user and the oaths were given by varous members in English, Gaelic, Doric, Orkadian, Scots, Urdu, German, Zimbabwian, Punjabi and sign language as eachmemebr wished to give it.
It couldnt be more opposite to thinking at Westminister, or its sea of white Cambridge and Oxford bred politicians and multi-millionares. And its actually representive of modenr Scotlands population and people. Another moment to be proud to be Scottish today. }}}


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Post by Pettytyrant101 Fri May 14, 2021 11:33 am

{{ Sadly Ive noticed a trend in some right wing media to try to dismiss yesterdays events and paint those who stopped the immigration van yesterday as being mainly made up of immigrants. And using that as if its an argument against what happened. Apart from the fact regardless of where the protesters were originally from they live here, work here, pay their taxes here, raise their families here and they have as much right to protest as any, its also simply untrue.
Whilst there were people there from various communities (a good thing in itself to see Seik, Muslim, Hindu, Christian and those of no faith standing together in peaceful protest) the vast bulk of those who protested were white Scots. }}

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Post by Mrs Figg Fri May 14, 2021 2:00 pm

Looks like Scotland is going to become a bastion of freedom. Bit like Canada in The Handmaids Tale, with England being Gilead.
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Post by Pettytyrant101 Fri May 14, 2021 2:40 pm

{{ i think we are a tleast trying for better Figg. There's plenty still to do, and cant let things like this, good as they are, paper over the cracks of where there is so much more to do, and you always have to be on guard against a slide backwards in attitudes and views. But right now we are at least heading in the right direction for a better future and the majorityof Scots are who are driving that push, especially our young folk. }}

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Post by Pettytyrant101 Sat May 15, 2021 6:28 pm

{{ I dont normally frequent Twitter but I cant find this for some reason on youtube.
This is the response to the deportation atttempt from Scotlands Justice Secratary Humza Yousaf, from his twitter - }}

https://twitter.com/HumzaYousaf/status/1392880965228314625?ref_src=twsrc%5Egoogle%7Ctwcamp%5Eserp%7Ctwgr%5Etweet

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Post by Pettytyrant101 Wed May 19, 2021 7:48 pm

{{ According to the Daily Mail and Tory William Hague there are four questions those propsing Scottish independnce must answer which he claim have no answer. So I thought I'd help out by answering them.

'First – currency. Would an independent Scotland keep the pound – and be subject to decisions from the Bank of England – or would Scotland invent its own currency and prepare to join the euro?'

Scotland would keep the pound and use the English Central Bank during a transition period of about 5 years, during which time our own currency and Scottish Central bank will be set up. Wether or not we join the Euro would be entirely dependent upon the feelings and votes of the people of an independent Scotland.


'Second, as Lord Hague put it, ‘since tax revenues per head are about £300 lower in Scotland than UK-wide and government expenditure about £1,600 higher’, would the Scots have to pay higher taxes and an independent Edinburgh government have to borrow more?'

Taxes may be a little higher, in pollingmost Scots are willing to pay a little more for better services, but most of the savings would come from not contributing to UK projects we dont want or have anything to do with. The largest and most obvious of these is the renewal of Trident (£20 billion). As Scotland doesnt want them we would not be paying for them. However if England want to keep them, and as they dont have any facilities for keeping them, we will hang onto them for the five year transition period while England decide where they want to put them down south and in the meantime we lease where they are now to the RUK government, which would be a nice revenue earner. We also have most of the Uk coastline and fishing waters, not to mention oil, gas and hydro electirc that currently goes on the UK grid, which post independnce we would be selling to RUK. All this added revenue should more than make up for the per head difference.


'Third, what kind of border would there be between an independent Scotland and England, especially if Scotland were allowed to join the EU?'

That's only partly in Scotlands hands as obvioulsy England would have to come to the table on the border. For the period where we defintly wont be in the EU- probably at least that first five years there is no reason the border cannot be fairly light, similar to state borders in the US or borders between countries within the EU or between Scandinavian countries.
If we elect to rejoin the EU then it becomes the EU external border and will require the same checks and balances currently in place to Ireland. And much like Ireland, which prior to its indpeencne did 3/4 of it trade with UK and little directly to the EU, and now does little to the UK and the bulk to the EU, so would Scotland transition from a UK marketplace to a EU marketplace which is many times bigger.


'And fourth, what would happen with regard Scotland’s security, since Nato sets a target of two per cent of GDP spent on defence and the SNP has serious reservations about spending huge sums during current times of hardship?''

Many members of NATO in fact dont spend 2% of their GDP on defence. I suspect Scotland will spend between 1-1.5% and I also expect NATO would be happy with that as Scotland has, does and will still offer massive stragetic advantage to any north Atlantic alliance given our location, exisiting training facilities and the fact most of NATO's north Atlantic radar and tracking facilities and other installations are on our northern islands. Wether or not an independent Scotland would wish to remain a member of NATO would of course be up to the people as expressed through votes. But its highly unlikely NATO would refuse scotland membrship as it would be cuttin goff a vital andimportant strategic advantage.

'These vital questions need clear answers. Also, there’s the very tricky question about whether Scots living in England should get a vote on independence.'

Clear answers given! As to tricky question, no its not tricky. The answer is no. Only residents whether they are Scots or not can vote, that was how it was done last time and would be again. If you dont reside here, pay taxes here, work here, or raise your family here its not your future. Its for the people of the country to decide. }}

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Post by halfwise Wed May 19, 2021 8:04 pm

Rebuild and use Hadrian's wall as the border. Put the damn thing to some use.

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Post by Mrs Figg Wed May 19, 2021 8:42 pm

Trouble is Hadrians Wall is in England, the Geordies might have something to say about it.
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Post by Pettytyrant101 Wed May 19, 2021 8:53 pm

{{ If Scotland makes a success of independence the Geordies might want the old borders back so they can join! Very Happy }}

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Post by Mrs Figg Wed May 19, 2021 9:48 pm

sounds legit Nod
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Post by halfwise Wed May 19, 2021 9:53 pm

It's close enough to the border. And who would even realize Newcastle is gone?

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Post by Bluebottle Tue May 25, 2021 9:33 pm

Pettytyrant101 wrote:{{ If its not legal, not recognised whats the point? Plus the results of the election show the country is still pretty split down themiddle, damn near 50/50- holding a referendum in which half the population boycott voting would be utterly meaningless.  Not to mention Westminster would simply declare it an illegal vote and therefore not have any reason to accept the result.
Far better to my mind to go Sturgeon's route of legislate for it, put it through the Parliament and wait for Boris to challenge it in the courts. Thats an SNP win/win- either the court find it would be legal and Westminster has no power to decide if there is one, or the court side with Westminister blocking any democratic means of deciding ourselves, galvinising further support for doing so and resentment to Westminster for refusing it, piling more presure on and increasing the pro-indie majority to a more realistic level to actually gain independence (in my view a minumum of 60% consitently polling for indie. Anythingless its too narrow a margin, and if Scotland votes to remain again thats it for the foreseeabe future.)}}

The point lies in your first sentence. As I outlined in a previous post legal in internal national law does not effect legality in the sense of international law. There is further no prohibition on unilateral declarations of independence in international law, as the ICJ made clear in its statement on the UDI of Kosovo. Now, what does that mean? That the legitimacy of an UDI is wholly a matter of international law, which ultimately boils down to the recognition of other states. In short, legality under UK law is irrelevant to legality under international law. Here you might however be right in your statements in the realpolitik sense. The way Scotland goes about independence will affect how other states see its independence. And sadly, while the EU seems strongly in favour of Scottish independence per se, you cannot expect it to accept that it is done unilaterally while Member States like Spain has an influential voice. However, what happens if the unilateral path is all you have left? Should you let the UK veto any chance of Scottish independence when it is irrelevant under international law? As long is independence happens democratically and peacefully from the Scottish side, I would say they do the world a favour by not accepting anti-democratic vetoes, and going about independence to set an example for other self-determination to follow. To finally sink the imposition of unity by force and internal law against a national minority as acceptable in western democracies. But, this is also a realpolitik question, and while the world adapts to reality (the EU went out against both the independence of Slovenia and Croatia and the Baltics, all now Member States) it might take time and patience. The realpolitik question I grant is wholly up for debate. But I do believe against the unilateral veto of the UK, Scotland is perfectly legitimised to act (peacefully and democratically) equally unilaterally as the UK. And if there is any talk of the use of force by the UK side, I think that settles the argument in Scotland's favour immediately. I grant that it is a difficult balancing act, and that there is no simple answer.

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Post by Pettytyrant101 Wed May 26, 2021 12:49 am

{{ Sadly I think realpolitik triumphs. A referendum in which a large chunk of the population boycotts it would not provide a reliable result and leave it open to accusations of being such. And as you note is highly unlikely the EU, or especially certain member states with regions wishing to gain independence of their own, would look favourably upon such a referendum. Further I feel it would lead to a lot of social unrest as the population is split pretty down the middle on the issue of independence. If we are to be independent this needs to be the clear settled will of a majority in a referendum all sides consider legal and fair. And lastly if such a rogue referendum were held and the result was for independence I think Westminister would simply ignore the result, using its illegailty under the UK constituiton which reserves the right to call the referendum to Westminster to deny the result- with the inevitable result again being social unrest.

The question of if there comes a point when the Westminister position is so intractable that social unrest may be seen as desirable or even necesary to effect change can only come if a vastly large percentage of the population favours it, something closer to 70-80% not the current 50% }}

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Post by Pettytyrant101 Fri May 28, 2021 4:48 pm

{{ So much for royalty not getting involved in politics! }}

'The Duke and Duchess of Cambridge have held a private meeting with Gordon Brown - who recently launched a renewed campaign to keep Scotland in the UK.
William and Kate had talks with the former prime minister at the Queen's official Edinburgh residence on Thursday.
William later gave a speech describing how Scotland had shaped him, and praised its people and values.'- BBC

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Post by halfwise Fri May 28, 2021 5:09 pm

But they didn't say which way they leaned, so no obvious advocacy there.

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Post by Pettytyrant101 Fri May 28, 2021 5:19 pm

{{ Its pretty obvious what they are doing. And not coincidental they did it right after meeting the man spearheading the Unionist campaign in Scotland. Also the Royals have a lot of invested financial interest in land in Scotland and the Royal rights to all the coastline among other things. An independent Scotland would probably have some very different views on them paying proper taxes, and not getting all the coast line for free. }}

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Post by halfwise Fri May 28, 2021 6:14 pm

A separated Scotland would complicate things quite a bit for them, wouldn't it?

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Post by Pettytyrant101 Fri May 28, 2021 6:18 pm

{{ Indeed it would, they have royal palaces here like Balmoral, Holyrood, the Crown own huge areas of land and as I mentioned the coast line. All of which is bound to be looked at closely and to feature in necessary negotations bewteen Scotland and RUK following a yes vote if it happens. Not to mention there is no guarantee the people of Scotland would vote to retain a monarchy at all as Head of State after independence. }}

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Post by Bluebottle Sun Jun 27, 2021 11:55 pm

Fair and balanced on indyref2 and the neverendum - Scot goes pop, I'm finally compelled to admit it: the SNP leadership have become the biggest obstacle to independence

https://scotgoespop.blogspot.com/2021/06/im-finally-compelled-to-admit-it-snp.html

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Post by Pettytyrant101 Mon Jun 28, 2021 12:43 am

{{ As that piece points out the polling doesnt show a clear majority for independence, its still hovering between 48% and at best 52%. Thats a highly risky situation in which to hold it if its another loss that will effectively kill it for decades, the political wind will be gone from the sails and the argument that the SNP will just keep asking till they get the answer they want will gain significantly more strength, as will the argument the country cant afford to be in a state of perpetual constituional debate and uncetainty if people have voted twice to remain already.
There is no  point, no matter how much pro-indy party members might want it in risking the only chance we might get on such a tight margin unless push comes to shove.

The best strategy therefore is to move the numbers. The way to doing that is what the SNP say they are doing but havent felt the timing rght, what with pandemic and all, to focus the public on yet- which is a detailed plan and explanations. Clearly outlaying and detailing all the answers to questions folk have- what currency, who will be central bank, how will we cut debt and balance the books, will any services be cut, will there be tax changes, how will pensions be funded, at what level will benefits be set, will we retain the monarch and what role will they play, how will the miltary function, how do we attract inward investment, what will our busines rates be and capital gains? All those sort of questions have to be honestly laid out, pros and cons. Then the dial may shift favourable enough to hold the referendum in 2023. Scotland will not vote for drastic change unless it has a clear idea of whats it voting for, patriotism alone is not enough to get a solid majority on side.

And by 2023, with that information made available and openly debated, Boris and his Tory party and the consequnces of their decisions and of Brexit may be coming home to roost further boosting the desire to detach from Westminster rule. And what occurs in Norethern Ireland will have an effect too.

And the unionist side will probably not be represented by Westminster boogeyman Johnston, or even Scottish Gove, but by the likes of Gordon Brown and Ruth Davidson. Brown had a big impact in the last days of the last referndum, many believing his 'Vow' speech swung the vote for the Union, and Ruth Davidson is the most popular Scottish Tory leader they have had since Annabel Goldie, with the difference Ruth also won considerably more votes for the Scottish Tories.
They will be prepared if the answers are not there to these questions and independence will fail again.

The SNP will have to hold off till post pandemic, its simply still the priority right now- then they will need time to properly outline and make the case and provide the detail inorder to push the numbers a lot higher. Hence why I beleive Strugeon will follow her plan and do as she claims they are, preparing said information for release and push for a referendum in 2023/24 prior to a general election.}}

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Post by Pettytyrant101 Tue Aug 17, 2021 4:09 pm

{{ Really enjoy this guys vids, he brings interesting perspectives to Scottish history. }}


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Post by Bluebottle Tue Sep 14, 2021 9:08 am

Apparently about 500 of 100 000 paying members voted (probably a majority in elected position in or for the party), but the rank-and-file has spoken. "Please go slow."

https://twitter.com/ChrisMcEleny/status/1437534575253671938

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Post by Pettytyrant101 Tue Sep 14, 2021 9:54 am

{{ Party conference for all parties is mainly for show and for the party itself. But they are right in this case. Alba and its supporters might jump up and down demanding a referendum tomorrow but if they got it theyd lose, again, badly. The polling isnt there, the case hasnt been made.
That was Salmonds biggest problem last time, for a man with a history in finance he couldnt answer the most basic questions about currency, pensions, taxation, NHS and much more. And with a mix of post Brexit fall out still impacting the economy and society and combined with the uncertainty around covid and its economic impact there is not a snowballs chance in hell that a YES vote would win at this time in my view.
We wont get another shot at this if NO wins again for a very, very long time, so there is no point of going to the people if the case has not been made enough for polling to show at least a consistent 60% majority for YES. And thats yet to happen.

What has started again is the White Paper, civil servants were taken off the case for independence to deal with the pandemic as a priority, but are starting to return to work on it. Its aim is to lay out an honest assessment of the pros and cons of independence to put to the people to decide. Hence why yesterday Swinney told us that it would take a minimum of three years for Scotland to set up and begin printing its own cuurency, and that until then we would continue to use the pound, meaning we would have no Central Bank and the Bank of England would control interest rates and the like for that period with no say from Scotland (this is the same way Ireland went about it so its not untried) but its an honest assessment of pros and cons. And if the argument is to be made and won this time, we are going to need that sort of detail in answeing folks questions, good and bad and for folk to decide for themselves.}}

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Post by halfwise Tue Sep 14, 2021 11:14 am

If there's not a very clear majority for independence, such a big change should NOT happen. I'd say you'd need at least a 2/3 majority for making such a big step. Large changes inevitably carry pain; a vote of 52% is insufficient to even consider such a thing.

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